Episode Transcript
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Welcome back to Hotter Iced.
I am your co host, Laura Beth Buckleiter.
With me is my co host.
Co host. My other co host. The other co host. Your other co host. There was a word there. There was a phrase there. I'll get it. It's fine. It's just talking. It's just words, Allison. And our very special guest, our first very special guest. Because last time we just were talking to each other.
Kate Dutton is joining us, and we'll have a little bit more of a conversation with her during our pouring out time. But before we pour out the coffee or save the coffee, we have to brew it. So let's get it brewing.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: So where are we?
And just for review, last. Last month we were at the Avenue.
Yes.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Also here in broader Pole.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Yep. And they're going. Going to be going through some changes, but they've got some great stuff coming up. So keep an eye on. On that for. For people here in town. They have a birthday celebration coming up, I noticed, so.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, they do.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah. It's been two years. Two years. So Good. All right, but tell us where we are now.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: All right, so we are at the Monon Coffee Shop in Throttlepol.
For those of you familiar with the area, it's right next to the bungalow.
Right across from the French Quarter restaurant.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Or.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah, is 317 Burger still there?
[00:01:57] Speaker A: I don't know. It was last time I ate there.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: I know.
Oh, okay.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: Well, I don't know how long ago that was.
It was definitely there the last time I ate there.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Okay, I'll have to check. Garden table is just next door.
And so the Mono Coffee Company is one of my personal favorites. Actually, the first time I came, I was in high school, and it must have been right after they opened, because they opened in 1997.
So I probably would have been here.
I don't know. Probably. But when we're like 98, 99, maybe. Maybe 2,000.
And then I was a student at Butler, so this was kind of our hangout area. This was where we would come study.
And I had kind of gotten. Well, I guess when I was getting my master's or after I got my master's, they actually opened a second location down on Central Avenue. And it was connected to Indy's kitchen, which was the commercial kitchen space.
And so I kind of got to know the owner. The owner at the time was named William, and then he sold the business to the current owner, Leslie, and she had worked here in high school.
And so she kind of came full circle and is now the owner and.
Yeah, it's just always been one of my favorite spots. They have an amazing, I think, Chuchu Brew, which is their.
Like, their main drip coffee is the Chuchu Brew, and I think it's delicious. I'm not really a black coffee fan, but if I have to drink it, I would prefer to drink the Chuchu Brewer.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: That's like, as in Choo Choo train? Is that what you're saying?
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Yeah, like the Monon Train system.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: Oh, gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, the Monon Trail is a hiking, biking trail that goes from downtown all the way to the north suburbs. That's a. It's an old railroad bed trail. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I'm drawing the connections. Yeah, I'm getting it. Yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Now, I was. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night, so.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: And I'm not for sure, but I. I think Choo Choo Brew is actually, like, roasted in Wisconsin, maybe. Like, I don't think it's a local roaster. They do have some local beans sometimes, but.
And anyways, I don't want to say anything incorrectly, but this is my knowledge of the Monon Coffee Company.
They recently. Yeah, they recently had to shut down for a little bit for, like, plumbing issues. And so, as with any small business that really kind of, you know, hurt them. So we've decided to record here today to support them, and we're hoping to maybe do another queer coffee club here in February, maybe add an additional date if we can.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah, we're gonna do something even in an evening or an afternoon.
Yeah, more on that to come. The floors look great, by the way. Yeah, I know. That was a big, big deal to get those done. So.
Yeah. So come on out and visit Monon if you're looking for a good, good coffee place. Have you. You went to Butler, too, Kate? We have two Butler alumni here. I have a claim to Butler because the seminary I went to is attached, but it's not quite the same experience.
What do you have, Monon memories?
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Not as many, fortunately. There are a lot of coffee shops in Indianapolis, so this was one of many that I kind of traversed. I will say Broad Ripple parking is challenging, but I feel like an insider because I know that there's, like, a back lot that I feel pretty safe parking in, even though there are, like, towing signs.
But, yeah, I've had some really good interactions here with different people. I've always found it to be cozy.
The drink that I have, I've ordered multiple times. And we can get into that.
But I really like the vibe here.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: So now you've just made everybody listening an insight or two to know that there's parking in the back. So. Yeah, I mean, I always park in the street, but. But I would forget that there is parking back here. And it's actually pretty ample and easy to get into. And there's a back door to.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And they won't tow you back here. Now if you try to park in the bungalow parking lot, I think they might. There's a lot of signs that they will tow. But yeah, there are like, I don't know, five or six spaces back here that you can park in without having to pay. And it's very nice.
[00:06:45] Speaker C: I'd say if you want to be resourceful and scrappy, go for it, park back here. But if not, you know, street parking is great too.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. Yep. Good. So speaking of coffee, what are we drinking? Of course, Allison and I are in our traditional. Hot or iced?
Hot and iced.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: What are you drinking?
[00:07:08] Speaker A: I went with the peppermint latte.
Yeah, just. It's a base, just the basic latte with some peppermint thrown in there. Wanted to keep it simple today. They do have some really good looking drinks up there, but keeping it clean. Yep.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I just mix some chuchu brew in with the rest of your latte. So.
[00:07:31] Speaker A: Sorry I didn't empty it first in our prep. No, it actually tastes great. So this is not. This is like usually if I had black coffee, I would put creamer and maybe a little sugar in it, but. Yeah, but when it's coming on the tail end of a latte, it already has all of that stuff in there. So this is. This is an ideal second cup. Yeah. Good.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: All right.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: You did great. Did great. What do you got going on?
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Traditionally I would do a iced. An iced Irish cream latte, but today I did a coconut iced latte. And the reason is because I've been making my own coffee syrups at home trying to save money and not get a daily latte. If I had a drip coffee habit, it would be one thing, but when you're getting, you know, five or six, seven, eight dollar latte every day, it's.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Not for the good. For the record, this will make more sense in the next conversation. She has talked about that before we. Before we met Kate and saving money by not eating coffee out. Yeah.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: I'm intrigued though. I've gone that route as well. I had some really good success with lavender, so syrup. But I'm So curious, Allison, what have you tried at home? What's been successful?
[00:08:49] Speaker A: So tell us what is in an Irish cream?
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. So I love Irish cream. And not a whole lot of coffee shops offer. There's more now, but sometimes, you know, they only offer, like, caramel, vanilla, hazelnut. That's it. So Irish cream sometimes is hard to find.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: And Irish cream can. Is one of those season, like peppermint. Peppermint will kind of go away as well, because Irish cream comes with March and St. Patrick's Day. Yeah. Which incidentally, today is St. Brigid's Day, who is the lesser known but much older saint of Ireland. So today is her feast day. Not that anyone asked, but now you know. So Irish cream.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: So I wanted to make my own Irish cream syrup, and I was like, I don't really even know what this consists of. So I looked up the recipe, and you use cocoa powder, like, unsweetened cocoa powder, instant espresso. So like instant coffee, then water, sugar, vanilla. Some recipes called for a little bit of almond extract.
I did not put that in mind, but I think I will the next time. But it was amazing how. I mean, it tastes like ice cream syrup. And I had no idea that it was coffee and mocha. And then. I'm sorry, you could also add Irish whiskey to it, but I did not.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah, just because I.
Yeah.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: I mean, I don't think the, like, syrups that come in the coffee.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: No, they don't have that here.
It is very stereotypical Irish thing to do. But, yeah, so, yeah, so that mean when you told me that earlier, I'm like, now that I'm thinking through it, those are all the flavors of Irish cream. And.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: What comes out of that. So, yeah, I get to benefit from a lot of Alison's experimentation, and I'm here for all of it. So, yeah, look forward to trying some Irish Irish cream and probably will put the whiskey in it, just for the record. But so we have a hot. Nice. As always, Kate. It's not a competition between Allison and I, but it also is so hot or iced.
[00:11:02] Speaker C: Today I'm hot.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: And I'll tell you why. It's January, so if I've got to have a hot drink, it may as well be in one of the colder months. I typically am an iced person, so I'll give you that, Allison.
But I also thought about recording a podcast. If I wanted to drink something iced, there's the risk of the ice clanking around as I'm recording drinking it.
I will. I will also say What I'm drinking today is a Mona Lisa.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: And so that's specific to Monon Coffee Company. I always. I come here so infrequently, but I almost always want to drink it.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Is it a Mona Lisa or a Monon Lisa?
[00:11:45] Speaker C: Mona Lisa.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: I see where you're going there.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Okay. All right, all right, all right.
[00:11:50] Speaker C: I hadn't thought of it in that light, but I always ask him, like, can you tell me again what's in the Mona Lisa? And so it's a latte with honey and cinnamon, which in my mind, I'm like, oh. So it's a mielle, which is a common name for that type of latte, but it does feel distinct. So come try the Mona Lisa. Would recommend.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Excellent. So at our last coffee club, which was at the Avenue, our next coffee club, incidentally, and you're paying attention, is going to be the 15th. Is that right?
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Saturday the 15th. And we're at Prufrock.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Yes, we are.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Yeah. So we will meet downstairs at Prufrock. It's a great space. It'll be our second time.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: There.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: So have you been to Fur Frog?
[00:12:46] Speaker C: I have, yes. They have a great basement, too, area if you haven't been for studying. It's like kind of a den, like, but it's got plants. And you're in great company with other people doing, I'm sure, magnificent work on their laptops.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Were you the one I was talking to? Somebody I was talking to recently called it the Hogwarts. Hogwarts Common room.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: I can see that.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
The. We won't get into the whole J.K. rowling debate. We can just love Hogwarts comedy.
The thing of them. But at our last coffee club meeting, we somehow got into talking about other dichotomies that Alison and I are faced with. And the whole peanut butter. Smooth or crunchy?
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Yes. And it's because our last snack was peanut butter and jelly. M&Ms. I think that's how we got into it.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: That is. That is exactly how we got into it. Thank you for that. Yeah. And so, Allison, smooth or crunchy?
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Smooth all the way.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So. And I'm. I'm crunchy. I like to have a little texture in there. Kate.
[00:13:53] Speaker C: I'm smooth.
Well, we know you're smooth, but any opportunity to share.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so, if we're keeping track, Kate is now smooth and hot.
[00:14:08] Speaker C: I planned that.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Kate is winning the day. Yeah. So that's great.
Good. Yeah. Any. Any other that have come up that you want to that we should try and settle while we have a chance.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Did we do sweet or salty?
[00:14:27] Speaker A: We didn't. We didn't. I would have to go sweet.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: I would have to go sweet, too. But I'm also one of those that has to, like, alternate. So salty. Sweet. Salty sweet. But I would definitely choose sweet.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: Okay.
Okay. How about.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: I like that. The contrast. I'm very much sweet.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: All right.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Okay. Hot, smooth, and sweet.
The not trying to identify you on your behalf. We'll talk more about that later. But yeah, so it's. We're not as far apart on the. On the suite as we are on most things. And for the record, Kate, Alice and I get along great. I mean, she's.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: We do.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: One of my closer friends. Yeah. We just. There's Just a lot of.
[00:15:22] Speaker C: Lot of things you compliment one another.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, we really do.
And it's all good. So do you have a snack for us?
[00:15:34] Speaker B: I do have a snack for us. Yes. And as today is the first day of February.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: I have a slightly Valentine's Day ish treat.
These are. And it's another candy. So sorry. Red velvet Reese's cups.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Okay. I'm already here for it.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: You're already here for it?
[00:15:56] Speaker A: I mean, Reese's Cups. Hard to go wrong.
I mean, chocolate and peanut butter. If you're gonna do smooth peanut butter, do it in chocolate. That's what I'm gonna say. And red velvet. I mean, I was, like, way too old before I realized red velvet was a kind of chocolate, but. Yeah.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yes. But my question is, because it says milk chocolate and peanut butter with red velvet flavored cream, when I think of red velvet cake, I think of cream cheese frosting.
So I'm curious to know if this red velvet portion is gonna taste cream. Cheesy.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Interesting. Okay, let's find out. Let's go for it.
[00:16:37] Speaker C: And for the good of the listeners, I was actually having this conversation last night about Reese's and what's the superior form of Reese's. But for me, it comes down to the ratio of chocolate to peanut butter to other flavor. So what size is this? I would call this the original size, right? Yes.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: What is your preferred size or 4?
[00:16:59] Speaker C: Well, I think the ideal one is the reeaster egg.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Oh, okay. So that's like.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: But it lacks.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Sorry, Go ahead, Go ahead.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: No, well, I was gonna say it lacks ridges, and I need the ridges.
[00:17:14] Speaker C: Okay, Fair. Totally fair. For me, it's about the ratio, though.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Okay. All right.
[00:17:18] Speaker C: Not so much the shape as it is the chocolate to Peanut butter ratio.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: So would you say there's more peanut butter in the egg versus chocolate?
[00:17:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Okay, so how do you feel about pieces like the Reese's Pieces?
Are they just a completely different.
[00:17:36] Speaker C: They're.
The texture is so different.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it is.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: They just feel like a completely different confection at that point. Okay, are we ready? Yeah, we're good. Okay. It's red. I didn't expect that. I was kind of expecting.
Still chocolatey on the outside.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Well, I think it's only red on half.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just a red top, so.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Cheers.
All right. Your first bite. I don't get anything different other than a regular receipt.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: I'm glad you said that because I was thinking the exact same thing and I didn't want to say it first.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: No, I think they're suspiciously similar.
I even turned it upside down because it appears the red parts on the top to be like. Okay, if it hits my tongue first, no difference.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm feeling the same thing. I mean, I'm a little disappointed, to be honest. It feels a little gimmicky.
I mean, it's fun and everything. I think part of it is like you say, when we have red velvet cake, there is like the whole cream cheese icing and all of that, and the red part is chocolatey, but because it's red. Red.
And because it's with the cream cheese, it has it. It hits us different than chocolate. But if you're putting red velvet next to chocolate with a flavor that we already associate so strongly with chocolate, I don't think it's going to come. I don't think it's going to stand out.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Around Christmas time. I didn't give you.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: You did. Yeah.
Those were good. Because it did introduce a sweeter. I mean, it had that little bit of crunch, too.
Yeah. So it reduced some texture, introduce some flavor.
I am getting a little bit more of a creamy aftertaste, maybe, but.
But I also think I might be really trying hard to create one in my mind, so.
All right, so they're not bad.
Yeah. Red velvet Reese's. Would you recommend try them?
[00:20:29] Speaker B: I would recommend, but I don't think it's any different than a regular one.
Doesn't taste much different, if any different.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: Okay. So no danger in trying. Yes. Yeah. How about you, Kate?
[00:20:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I have the same sentiment.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Excellent. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's not. I'm not sad at all that I tried it. It's not.
I'm not cringing at it, but it Just wasn't the life altering experience that I often hope for in a new candy.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: I would say Laura Beth and I tried the golden Sriracha Doritos the other night during the playoff games, and they were actually delicious.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: They were surprisingly delicious if you haven't tried them. Highly recommend.
And the thing that I liked about them was I. I tend to binge chips, so I will eat a lot of chips at once and have that experience. But these were not so spicy that they hit me hard. And I'm not great on spicy foods, you know, but there was just enough of an aftertaste that it. You had that. That spicy experience. But I didn't. I wanted one at a time. I wanted to have that.
So we didn't have a huge bag, but it lasted us, like, almost the whole game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So good stuff. So. Yeah. Spicy. What is sriracha?
What are they called?
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Oh, they're golden Sriracha.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Golden Sriracha. That's what it was. Yeah.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: And I guess. I don't know, do they have a golden sriracha, like hot sauce?
[00:22:09] Speaker A: I don't know. Maybe when they put it on the corn chip, it becomes golden. I don't know.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: Sounds like branding to me.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
All right, well, I think the coffee is brewed.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: Okay, wonderful.
[00:22:26] Speaker A: It's time to pour it out. Right. We're gonna come back, pour out the coffee, and have a great conversation with our dear friend Kate.
Stick around.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: All right.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: All right. Time for part two. Okay. It's time to. Time to pour out the coffee.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Let's do it.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Not pour out the coffee. Like, pour. Serve up the coffee. Like, pouring out.
There's a difference between pouring it out, like, because it's bad.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Right?
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Right.
Yeah. But we want to, like, pour it out into the cups and serve it anyway.
Our lovely guest is my friend and somewhat new friend and colleague, Kate Dutton. Do you want Kate White Dutton, or are you just Kate Dutton?
[00:23:22] Speaker C: We can say Kate Dutton. I'll address that later on. Essentially, I've been married for a year, and it's been a slow transition to let go of that name I've had for 30 years. So Maiden name is White. My married name is Dutton, So eventually it'll be Kate Dutton.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Okay, great. And I was just talking about how I. Like in my phone, I have your married name, but in other places, you're. You're still making that. That shift. So I have to just mentally switch every now and then. Just one of them. We're going to talk about identities more a Little bit. So names are important.
Sorry, Shakespeare. A rose by any other name wouldn't be a rose.
Yeah, it's something different.
So, Kate is.
I'm going to let you tell us what you do because it's really fascinating. It's in the financial world, in financial planning. But you've always described it to me as more of a behavioral approach to finances, which has really resonated, I think, both with Allison and I and what we might need in our lives right now. So, yeah, just share a little bit about what you do, maybe how you got to doing that and yeah, I think we'll both have some questions.
[00:24:44] Speaker C: Yeah, certainly. Well, I am a trusted financial coach.
Sometimes I like to use financial therapists. I have to be careful because it's not clinical.
I'm not a psychologist. I don't have any fancy letters behind my name.
But it truly is meeting people where they are, respecting their autonomy and their expertise for who they are in their life. You know, I like to say if we were all logical creatures, we would have this all figured out. There wouldn't be a job for me in personal finance. But the reality is we make decisions based off of our experiences, our emotions, and that can get conflicted. So how do we think through what our major goals are, what our subset goals are, what our emotions are and how do we align to figure out what those trade offs can be? And so that sounds very nebulous, but essentially it's I meet people where they are, do we hit it off? You know, you're not going to talk to me about your finances if I'm not a trustworthy person. And then we talk about what are you already doing? What are you hoping this would do for you? Why are you putting more money here than there? We all come with our own financial stories from family or just what we picked up along the way in life.
And from there I help align folks as well as make things more efficient. It's actually a creative thing for me to figure out. Okay, here are your puzzle pieces. How do we start to put them together in a way that serves you without severely compromising your lifestyle? Like, I love coffee. Some days I'm going to pay six, seven, eight dollars for coffee. But where else in my life is it less important to be spending that extra money?
I will say I come from a background of communication. I was also in the faith space, so having those deep conversations, connecting with people. Both my husband and my sister are school counselors, so I'm very much in the conversational area. Like, tell me about you and your life and your soul.
So I'm kind of unconventional in that way that I came into the finances because I saw a need rather than, oh, I love numbers. Numbers are important. Money's important. That's why I do this.
But I take a more humanitarian approach and then we'll figure out the numbers together.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of bringing a lot of what we talk about in narrative therapy or in church change and transition management, we talk about community narratives. And so it's really bringing that whole narrative element, that personal story element to the financial planning. It's not a one size fits all. It's not a formula that we're going to shove your life into.
Is that accurate?
[00:27:40] Speaker C: I mean, yeah, that very much resonates in. I often think about the larger financial landscape of what your typical experience might be, whether that's with a wealth manager or a financial planner. And it typically is, okay, what is your profile? What's your risk? How much money do you have? Let me plug it into my formula and tell you what you should be doing.
Whereas that is very far from what I try to do. I try to understand you as a person, as a human. And then tell me the numbers and we'll figure out how that fits together.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, so you use the term wealth management. I chuckle anytime somebody is like, we need to talk about your wealth management. I'm like, well, we need to have something to manage first.
But everybody has a story.
Not everyone has wealth to bring to the table. Not everyone. And everyone has finances because we are in an economy and we're engaging in that economy. So just the impression that I've gotten from talking to you is that there isn't a person that you couldn't do some help you couldn't help or do some work with. I mean, obviously, like I said, the trust needs to be there. But this isn't about taking great resources and making greater resources. This is about taking great people and teaching us.
I just made myself a great person there, but teaching us. Okay, thanks. Teaching us to be better with the resources and to think in ways that we don't usually think. So a question that I had, given the culture that we're in and people that I'm talking to specifically in the queer community and feeling a lot of us feeling very out of control with people off far away trying to make decisions about our lives and tell us who we are and what we're doing, I have a lot of people saying, why plan for the future? It doesn't feel like there is one the economy, everything is on its way out.
I didn't prep you with that question. So do you have a gut reaction? I mean, I can imagine as a financial person what that might be, but I'm just curious, how are you bringing that narrative to the table right now?
[00:30:22] Speaker C: I see implications for what's happening in the world in a lot of spaces. For instance, I do work with some clients who have heritage from Mexico. They may not be immigrants themselves, but family members, friends, and it's a scary time.
I also spoke with a gentleman the other day who said, I want to live my life now.
I don't want to save, like, it's going to be a good life. I've got this feeling I'm not going to live for a long time, so I want to enjoy the life that I've built.
And I think there's so much validity in that.
We need to live our lives.
However, I challenge folks to see, is there a both and how can I, Yes. Live my life now as well as plan for the future?
Because there is this sense of, oh, I'll figure it out down the line or I hope it'll come together.
That's not a very strong strategy because when we're here 20 years from now, it's like, wow, I still have physical needs and I still care for my loved ones, my family, and it's not free to live, to eat, to have housing.
So how do we strike a balance between both and be creative with the resources that we have?
[00:31:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's not just about.
It's not just about the storyline that I can imagine or that I'm fearing. It's about all of the potential storylines and everything that they come, everything that can potentially come out of that. We can't plan for every contingency.
We need to be respectful of people we care about and people around us.
[00:32:17] Speaker C: As well as our future selves.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I don't think about that person or my current self or past self probably enough. But, yeah, future self is going to need resources.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: A big focus of mine is also flexibility.
Variables are going to change. Our values might change a little bit. Things will happen that we cannot foresee. So how do we provide for ourselves now? While offering flexibility, I guess would be.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: Curious how someone would get started working with you. Like, what does that process look like?
[00:32:58] Speaker C: Yeah, well, with the trust factor, it's very much the social contact of a lot of times I will meet people just in my life or it will be someone I'm already working with. And they say, you really need to meet so and so.
It's often a text message or honestly, let's get coffee. I love coffee. It's a nice social setting.
And I always say if it makes sense to have further conversations, great. If not, I'll just be glad to have had the chance to share with you what I do and meet a cool new person.
But that first conversation is just getting to know one another, why I do what I do, kind of what headspace you're in. What you see as what could be a value add, what your experience has been. Because some people have some really negative experiences and ideas in their head of what it is or what it isn't.
So that's the first meeting. And then the second meeting is really just, hey, let's get to know you by the numbers. And not just showing me a piece of paper, but telling me, oh, here's why I do what I do. And this is what that's for. And this is what this is for. Because there's no one right way to do finances, but to understand what you have, what you're doing, and where you'd like to be.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: Gotcha. Okay, now this may be a very, like, dumb question, but my thought is I need to pay you for your services.
So how did, like, does that make sense? Like, how does that work?
[00:34:26] Speaker C: It does. And I think that's a very pertinent question. And I, I'm grateful that you ask it. Right. A lot of people will shy away from talking about money, their shame. I don't have shame around what I do.
And it is typically addressed in the first conversation, if not the first interaction. But the thing is, I don't get paid to have conversations. They are at no cost to you. I don't have a clock in the background saying, this will be your bill for our time that we spent. But the onus on me is to add value to any client I interact with. If I find that you can be doing this work on your own, why would I ask you to pay me to do it?
So it's really if I add value in some way, like managing funds.
So if you have someone that is going to change what stocks you have, you do pay them a percentage. And that's very common in the financial world. There's also, if you utilize a financial tool that requires a premium, for instance, if it's some type of life insurance, there are other tools as well. But if you find that that tool is beneficial to you, you'll pay for that tool and that that tool then compensates me.
So there are many clients I have where they're not at a point where there's any commissionable activity.
And I'm completely okay with that. I like to grow with people so they can grow their wealth. And there will become a time where they need some support as well as there are other people in their circles that I can be helping, that they can introduce me to.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Okay, makes sense.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: So kind of taking the conversation on a little bit of a turn.
We're definitely in a coffee shop. I don't know if we can hear it on the record recording, but they are blending something beautiful back there. It sounds like the we are. Our origins are in our queer coffee, the indie queer coffee club. And our audience is obviously, hopefully not exclusively queer people, but a lot of that is where our roots are. So tell me just a little bit. I have experienced you as an immense, wonderful ally, but tell me a little bit about your engagement with the queer community and why that's a passion for you. And sure.
[00:36:48] Speaker C: Like anything, life is a journey. So it's been a journey with my understanding of, you know, my own sexuality and how I relate to others in the world.
I very much grew up in the choir and musical community, which, whether people were officially out or not, they were exploring different facets of who they were. It amazes me, though, looking back. I mean, I was a child of the 90s, graduated in 2010 from high school, and people were not out. And it wasn't until years later. And even my collegiate experience, like, people I was close with in sorority, like, loved who they were, didn't have a reason to know their sexuality or question it. And then here they are 10 years later, they have a partner and they're having children, and I'm like, good for you. Anyway, I digress.
What really got me connected with the queer community is the church that I attend.
It's Disciples of Christ, downtown Indianapolis. They're very much social justice oriented, not just for the queer community, but also people, different intersectionality.
But when I first attended that church, I walked in and I felt the warmth of community.
And I saw. I had never seen this before. Like, mature queer relationships, people just standing in pews together. I was like, this is so beautiful. This is their. Their queerness is just one piece of who they are. And, like, this feels like God's kingdom or whatever we're striving to be.
So it's really through that church that I've learned more about advocacy as well as in my former position, I provided resources to churches and synagogues, and churches are. Can Be pretty polarized on that topic. However, that doesn't dismiss the need for those resources. And how do we talk about it?
[00:38:54] Speaker A: That's a kind understatement, by the way. Thank you.
[00:38:58] Speaker C: Well, some of it goes back to my training. I've got to speak to different people and where they are.
And honestly, some of the resources were, how can you be in this really conservative space and begin to have those conversations?
Like, how do you speak in that vernacular and that quite honestly, that oppressive and really damaging way of viewing sexuality and start to talk with loved ones and children and people in your circles to start to dismantle some of that.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And so the financial world, the faith world, and the queer community, the faith world and the financial world have a reputation for being embedded in more conservative, fiscally conservative spaces. The church world definitely has its, its own history of harm and such. And so I think it's just really important to identify that.
That's why I like your approach to the financial conversation because it does honor the story of whoever. And as queer people, I think our stories are so much a part of who we are. And we're going to talk about identity more in just a minute, but the we're, we're down to our last two minutes. And one thing I always like to ask, as I was taught by my dear friend Cynthia, is there anything that you would have liked one of us to ask that we didn't ask? Anything that you're usually asked or that you were excited and maybe wanted to talk about that we didn't bring to the table?
[00:40:52] Speaker C: I'm pretty sure you asked this question. There was just a lot to share.
I'm very fortunate, I think, about my intersectionality. A white CIS woman, middle upper class, I was empowered by my father to take on finances and to be part of the conversation for myself with a wealth manager or, hey, I do have a career. What am I doing with my 401k?
And quite honestly, the reason why I got into this was I had a man who talked down to me about my finances who treated me so differently than my father.
And that really made me mad. That like lit a fire under me as well as I was always taught to be my own person. Like, I was not necessarily encouraged to date. Growing up, it was just like, you do you and life will come together. But I had worked in the workplace for 10 plus years and it's not typical for women or people who are not white men to be encouraged to talk about financial structures and tools.
And so I thought, you know what? I Earn as much, almost as much as a man. I should be empowered with these tools, and I should be helping my friends and family think through this. Not from a greedy stance, but like, hey, this is a tool that's often overlooked, quite honestly, by the church and. And common society.
Like, we have the shame of, oh, I have to eat, I have to talk, I have to have money.
But really viewing it as a humanitarian effort of we all need to eat, we all need shelter, we all need to be cared for, and money, it's not everything, but it is a component of that to empower you to pursue those other things that do fill you up.
So I got in this because I felt marginalized and didn't see people like myself in this. And so I really have a heart for others who are not naturally inclined in this space or those who have been intentionally kept out of this space.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: That's beautiful. Yep. Thank you for sharing the great. Well, we're gonna take a quick break and move on, so thank you. Kate enjoyed conversation immensely. Y All right, we're back. The coffee has been brewed and poured out, and it's time to savor it for a minute.
And the point of this savoring conversation is that I will bring us a topic. Last month, we talked about authenticity and what that means to us personally and how we engage the world with that. And we're going to kind of pick up on that a little bit. And the question this month is, what do you think? What does it invoke in you when I say identity?
Identity is something that's getting talked about a lot right now in identity politics, identity culture, self identity versus cultural identity and a given identity. How much agency do we have in identity? There's all sorts of conversations around who gets to say what identity is and how an individual identifies.
So, and some of that is very tied to privilege when, you know, a function of privilege is being able to function without thinking about things, without having things challenged. So someone who has a very culturally centric identity, ethnicist, straight, white, male, female, you know, you don't. You're not in a position where you have to think about it. And so therefore, this whole conversation around identity can be uncomfortable and foreign to you. So it's understandable. It's a journey that we're asking you to come on from people who have had that challenge. So there's my question. What does identity invoke in you? And it's a broad question. It could mean a lot of different things. So, Alison, we haven't heard much from you. In a minute. So.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: Yeah, so this is. I like what you just said because when I. When I initially think of identity, I relate it to myself, like, what does it mean? You know, for me. But you just mentioned all other forms of identity, that it's not just, you know, personal. It's. There's cultural identities, there's societal identities, you know, so I think that's a really good thing to think about.
But, yeah, I guess when I think of identity, I think there's so much involved in it. So there's like one's personality, there's one's environmental upbringing, there's one's socioeconomic status, there's someone's, you know, gender identity, sexuality. There's a lot that goes into it.
So. Yeah, I don't know that there's like an easy answer.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's go back to the. Your original thought when you think of identity in your own context.
[00:46:42] Speaker B: Yeah. So I guess I, you know, I identify as a.
A white, gay female. Yeah.
I'm a social. I identify as a social worker. I'm a daughter, I'm a sister. I'm an aunt.
[00:47:05] Speaker A: And a pretty fun aunt. That's right.
[00:47:09] Speaker B: I'm actually Gomo. Gomo's Korean for aunt. My Amy's and nephew are Korean. So I'm. I'm a Gomo.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So there's all of those different things that feed your identity. And I think you really brought up a lot of the.
A lot of the traditional conversation around nature versus nurture. What. What of our identity are we born with? Are we born into?
And what's around us and what is built?
What if our identity is immutable? What if it isn't going to change? And what if it grows and evolves and shifts and there are both in our lives and it's complicated. It's not simple for any of us in the narrative and everything. So, Kate, any thoughts?
Yeah, I know there are thoughts. I can see them on your face. So not any thoughts, but what are your thoughts?
[00:48:10] Speaker C: I love these questions because I've been tumbling them around in my head overnight.
Like I was sitting at home just staring and I just.
[00:48:22] Speaker A: I just want a little credit. I did give them a heads up this month that. Yes, I mean, it was only.
[00:48:27] Speaker C: Appreciate.
[00:48:29] Speaker A: Was only about 14 hours, but. Yeah, and. And I'm assuming they slept most of that time, but still. Yeah.
[00:48:36] Speaker C: One thing I think about with identity is how we view ourselves as well as how we organize ourselves.
So not only do I think about who am I, Kate, is my identity in What I do, is it who I relate to?
But also what does society tell me about myself so they can process me? I think about like a personal identification number.
Taxes are coming up. Right.
So how do we say, oh, what is your age? That's part of your identity. What is your gender? Where are you from? Are you a citizen?
Thank goodness they don't ask about sexuality for our taxes. Right. I don't think they do, but it kind of places you in your intersectionality and gives people an idea of, well, based off of these factors, here's how I can interact with you, here's what you deserve.
And there's so many implications for that.
So my, my mind is still turning. I don't know how to resolve that.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Those are all, those are all great things. I mean, it's.
So to what extent is our identity the sum of the data about us and to what extent is our identity the sum of our reaction to our experience?
That's kind of what I heard from both of you right there. So to some degree our identity is, can be, can be input into a spreadsheet and everything, but then there is a piece of our identity that, that spreadsheet can't, can't tell us. Which is why you pick the approach that you do to your work. Because you could collect all of the data on somebody, but you don't start there. Or maybe you start there, but you don't. That's not what you're trying to get to, to get to the heart of somebody's financial life. You want the story, you want their relationship to who they are and in this space. So relationship to self is part of what that identity brings. We talked when you introduced you for the last segment, just about your name and just that whole, you know, a question that is, is more and more legitimately asked. When people are getting married, you know, what is our name? Is it going to be hyphenated? We're going to keep separate names. I have several friends who created a whole new last name, you know, for their.
Which genealogists down the road are not going to be happy about. But they'll get over it or they won't. I don't. It doesn't matter.
Yeah, so, I mean, where, where does that name fit in your identity? Or does it, I mean, is it that significant? I mean, as a trans person, I have a, I have a very strong relationship to my name, but.
[00:52:05] Speaker C: I've, I've certainly considered it more based off of my last name, my surname. I think it's a slightly different conversation closer to home. If I were talking about, am I changing my first name?
[00:52:18] Speaker A: Yeah, true, fair. Yeah.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: I see my last name more as where do I come from? Who do I associate with? For instance, White. That's always going to be my family name. I'm always going to be connected to my mom and my dad and my sister, although my sister's now changed her, her last name.
But my new name, it really solidifies my partnership with my spouse.
And I, I did choose to take that name because I honor my partner and love my partner in that way. But also I didn't have a reason to keep my, my family surname.
I don't have any, like, academic papers that I've written that I need to like stay connected with.
So I guess I'm still working through all the implications of it. But I think some of it is also like internal identity. What do I tell myself of who I am and is a name attached to that?
Because some of it is so self created, what we tell ourselves of our identity.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: It is, yeah.
Self created, self interpreted.
It's just.
Yeah, no, that's well said.
[00:53:42] Speaker B: Lorbeth. Yes, we will ask the question to you. What is identity?
[00:53:47] Speaker A: Oh yeah, I forgot about that part.
Yeah. I think identity is so internal and so personal, you know, I think. Well, the name of the book that I published 10 years ago is Shattering Masks and recognizing masks are a function of controlling identity and managing identity in the way other people see us and being a person who, who didn't necessarily have us clear, a clear identity that fit well into the world as an intersex person, though we didn't know it at the time, with different health issues and different traumas and then just all of these different things that were feeding that identity are feeding the perception of self.
The temptation that I gave into most of my life was to create identities that fit into the world. So the connection of authenticity and identity is, is deep and intense.
The. And I love that, I love that you called out the, the connection to that first name versus our surname or our family names.
And there is something incredibly personal about that. I wrote this up a little while back, but if I will do this exercise right now. I didn't. I wasn't planning on this, but it feels right.
If I were to hand you a gift and I said, close your eyes and I handed it to you and the first thing you touched was. It was a little wet actually in slimy and it, it felt just like a tiny little stick.
And you said, what is this? And I said, it's a really cool thing.
And it's called a gorshin.
It's a gorshin. And you're like, I've never heard of a gorshin. I was like, well, just keep your eyes closed and explore a gorshin. And so you kind of move your hands up and it's still wet and a little slimy and it's getting a little dry, but all of a sudden it pokes you.
And, yeah, it's really sharp.
And as you keep going up, you kind of have to keep turning it because it gets really sharp and it's sticky. And all of a sudden you get to the top of it, or it feels like it's probably going to be the top of it, and it's just mushy and it feels really fragile, and it's just kind of falling apart in your hands.
And.
Yeah, it's just kind of.
It's in your hand.
You take a whiff of it. Kind of smells like your grandma's house some maybe in a good way, but not great in the context of that. And so you just kind of set it on the table and you're like, oh, thank you, maybe. And I tell you to open your eyes, and what do you think you're looking at?
Any idea based on that experience of it?
[00:57:25] Speaker B: Well, you told me it's a gorshin.
[00:57:27] Speaker A: It's a gorshin. Okay, but what. What is it?
[00:57:31] Speaker B: I don't. I don't.
[00:57:34] Speaker C: I'm thinking just like, the parts that you described and, like, physically what it would look like. And the gorshin, it. The name of it takes me into, like, stranger things and supernatural and, like. So I don't think it's like anything I've encountered, but maybe, in fact, it's something that's had water dripped on it, and it's a very common object.
[00:57:59] Speaker A: I just described a rose.
[00:58:02] Speaker B: Okay, I was gonna say with the thorns. But the top.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: I was gonna say the top. You get up to the bulb and it's the petals, and they could be falling apart in your hand, and it's that scent of soap that might be from your grandma's house. And so, with all due respect to Shakespeare, a rose by any other name isn't a rose.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: You gave us that hint.
[00:58:28] Speaker A: I did. Before we started recording, even. But, yeah. And it's just the way we identify the way we label things matters. It really matters. Language is important. Labels are important.
And identities are important. Important. And when we give people the agency of labeling themselves in a way that expresses the way they engage with the world, we're able to engage with those people in a way that becomes relevant and meaningful for all of society.
When we try and keep people in boxes, when we try and push them into these preconceived spaces, we lose out as an individual in that relationship. But as a culture, in the whole, we miss so much of who we are as people, and it's not as divisive as it is truly personally connective in that space. And so that's my invitation to think about identity as we go on. So.
Been a great conversation, so thank you for this.
[00:59:50] Speaker B: Wheels are spinning.
[00:59:51] Speaker A: Wheels are spinning. Yeah. So we will. We will pick that up again in our next recording. And I think we're gonna keep doing once a month. I'm thinking of a lot of guests that I want to do, so we. We might have to record more often. I don't know. We'll see how.
Since that. Kate, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. It's been a lot of fun. She is our first actual guest.
[01:00:16] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Because we were each other's guest the first time.
So thanks for being a little bit of a guinea pig and figuring this out. And, yeah, we will be back for some more hotter iced.
[01:00:31] Speaker B: Sounds good.
